[Accessibility-ia2] new scroll type?

Pete Brunet brunet at us.ibm.com
Mon Jun 30 15:48:01 PDT 2008


Alex, After thinking about this some more I am going to have to tweak it 
again.  Here is what I now have:

  /** Scroll the bottom edge of the object or substring such that the 
bottom edge 
   (and as much as possible of the rest of the object or substring) is 
within the
   top level window.  In cases where the entire object or substring fits 
within 
   the top level window, the placement of the object or substring is 
dependent on 
   the application.  For example, the object or substring may be scrolled 
to the 
   closest edge, the furthest edge, or midway between those two edges.  In 
cases
   where there is a hierarchy of nested scrollable controls, more than one 
control
   may have to be scrolled.
  */
  IA2_SCROLL_TYPE_BOTTOM_EDGE, 

Pete Brunet
                                                                          
IBM Accessibility Architecture and Development
11501 Burnet Road, MS 9022E004, Austin, TX 78758
Voice: (512) 838-4594, Cell: (512) 689-4155
Ionosphere: WS4G




"Alexander Surkov" <surkov.alexander at gmail.com> 
06/26/2008 06:38 AM

To
Pete Brunet/Austin/IBM at IBMUS
cc
Accessibility-ia2 at lists.freestandards.org
Subject
Re: [Accessibility-ia2] new scroll type?






Hi, Pete.

That's complicated a bit but it sounds correctly :) I think it's nice.

Alex.


On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Pete Brunet <brunet at us.ibm.com> wrote:

Thanks Alex I think I understand what you are describing, i.e. 
There is a top level document and the content is large enough such that 
some of it is above the view port of the application (browser / office 
app) 
There is a nested scrolling control/widget in the top level document and 
some of that control/widget is also above the viewport of the application. 

There is an object in the content of the nested scrolling control/widget 
and some of that object is above the nested viewport of the nested 
scrolling control/widget

How about a comment like this? 

 /** Scroll the bottom edge of the object or substring as close as 
possible 
  to the bottom edge of the containing scrollable control.  If there is a 
  hierarchy of containing scrollable controls scroll each of the parent 
  scrollable controls in turn starting from the most deeply nested 
  scrollable control until the object or substring is as close as possible 

  to the the bottom edge of the top level window. 
*/ 
IA2_SCROLL_TYPE_BOTTOM_EDGE,


Pete Brunet
                                                                         
IBM Accessibility Architecture and Development
11501 Burnet Road, MS 9022E004, Austin, TX 78758
Voice: (512) 838-4594, Cell: (512) 689-4155
Ionosphere: WS4G




"Alexander Surkov" <surkov.alexander at gmail.com> 
06/05/2008 01:39 AM


To
Pete Brunet/Austin/IBM at IBMUS 
cc
Accessibility-ia2 at lists.freestandards.org 
Subject
Re: [Accessibility-ia2] new scroll type?








Hi, Pete. 

Sorry I put two examples but gave one picture. But you talk correct things 
and they are coming with used firefox algorithm. 

About window and application client area I meant they are both good if you 
use them in the "screen" meaning. But when I see them I think about top 
level view (the view for browser or view for documents in the case of DOM 
window term). Note in this sense, application client area or window may be 
not scrollable but the same time the scrolled object may be contained by 
scrolled area. 

±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±± 
| scrolled object 
|!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
| nested scrollable area 
| 
|______________________________ 
| application client scrollable area 
| 
|±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±±± 
| 
|!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
| 
|________________________________ 

Here we should scroll top of "scrolled object" to top edge of "nested 
scrollable area" and top of "nested scrollable area" to top edge of 
"application client scrollable area". Possibly we should mention we have 
in view all nested scrollable areas that contain our scrolled object. 

Alex. 



On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 1:08 PM, Pete Brunet <brunet at us.ibm.com> wrote: 

Alexander, 

> ...then scroll_type_anywhere is equivalent to scroll_type_bottom_right 
I don't understand this.  I think, but I might be wrong, that you are 
describing these two examples.  In the first one the left edges are 
aligned.  In the second one the tops are aligned. 
______________________ 
| scrolled object 
|________________ 
| visible area 
| 

______________________ 
| scrolled object   | visible area 
|                                 | 
|                                 | 


In the first case you'd just move the object straight down.  In the second 
case you'd move the object to the right.  It would be like a top_edge and 
left_edge request, not a bottom_right request.  But I probably don't 
understand what you are thinking. 

Regarding "window" vs "application's client area", I didn't understand the 
original issue, i.e. you said, "the word window is reserved by DOM". 
Please explain.  I assumed that there was some reason why I couldn't use 
the word window so I used something equivalent. 

>Would it be better to use 'scrollable area' 

To me, "scrollable area" is the same as "window" or "application's client 
area".   

>emphasize there may be more than one view in hierarchy that should be 
scrolled to make the object visible? 

Could you give me an example so I can understand this? 

Thanks, 
Pete Brunet
                                                                        
IBM Accessibility Architecture and Development
11501 Burnet Road, MS 9022E004, Austin, TX 78758
Voice: (512) 838-4594, Cell: (512) 689-4155
Ionosphere: WS4G



"Alexander Surkov" <surkov.alexander at gmail.com> 
06/04/2008 09:46 PM 


To
Pete Brunet/Austin/IBM at IBMUS 
cc
Accessibility-ia2 at lists.freestandards.org 
Subject
Re: [Accessibility-ia2] new scroll type?










Hi, Pete. 

That sounds better. I think minimal amount is essential. And in the case 
when scrolled object is above of visible area like 

______________________ 
| scrolled object 
|      ________________ 
|      | visible area 
|      | 
 
scroll_type_anywhere is equivalent to scroll_type_top_left. But if 
top/left edge of the scrolled object is visible then scroll_type_anywhere 
is equivalent to scroll_type_bottom_right if top/left edge stay visible.

Sorry but I didn't catch a difference between old comment and reword 
comment for scroll_type_bottom_edge excepting it started to be more 
complicated :). 

I think application's client area sounds like previously used the word 
'window'. Would it be better to use 'scrollable area' or something to 
emphasize there may be more than one view in hierarchy that should be 
scrolled to make the object visible? 

Alex. 


On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 12:57 AM, Pete Brunet <brunet at us.ibm.com> wrote: 

Alex, I changed it a bit.  How about this? 

/** Scroll the object or substring a minimal amount such that as much as 
possible 
 of the object or substring is within the application's client area. 
*/ 

Is it important that the object only be moved a minimal amount?  For 
example, if the object was off screen to the top and to the left is it 
important that the action be equivalent to  IA2_SCROLL_TYPE_TOP_LEFT?  Or 
would it be OK for the object to be placed anywhere on the screen.  I 
suspect that minimal movement *is* important, i.e. it's likely that as 
much of the current screen content be preserved while string bringing the 
object into view. 

This brings up an interesting question.  The list of constants is: 

IA2_SCROLL_TYPE_TOP_LEFT, 
IA2_SCROLL_TYPE_BOTTOM_RIGHT, 
IA2_SCROLL_TYPE_TOP_EDGE, 
IA2_SCROLL_TYPE_BOTTOM_EDGE, 
IA2_SCROLL_TYPE_LEFT_EDGE, 
IA2_SCROLL_TYPE_RIGHT_EDGE, 
IA2_SCROLL_TYPE_ANYWHERE 

If I use bottom right and the object is above the client area then it 
would be valid with respect to the spec but not acceptable to the user to 
move the object such that only the bottom pixel or row of pixels is 
viewable.  Do ATs know to not use that constant when the object is above 
the view port?  Ditto with bottom left. 

Also, I reworded the 4 edge constants to say that the full edge must be 
made visible.  For example, 

/** Scroll as much as possible of the bottom edge of the object or 
substring 
 as close as possible to the bottom edge of the application's client area. 

*/ 
IA2_SCROLL_TYPE_BOTTOM_EDGE, 

Otherwise the app could just move a single pixel or row of pixels on 
screen, i.e. think of the case when the object is off screen to the bottom 
and to the left. 

Pete Brunet
                                                                       
IBM Accessibility Architecture and Development
11501 Burnet Road, MS 9022E004, Austin, TX 78758
Voice: (512) 838-4594, Cell: (512) 689-4155
Ionosphere: WS4G


"Alexander Surkov" <surkov.alexander at gmail.com> 
06/02/2008 09:59 PM 


To
Pete Brunet/Austin/IBM at IBMUS 
cc
Accessibility-ia2 at lists.freestandards.org 
Subject
Re: [Accessibility-ia2] new scroll type?












Hi, Pete. 
I think the word window is reserved by DOM, I would suggest to use here 
the word "screen" or "view area" instead. The phrase "can be placed 
anywhere" makes me scary a bit because it sounds undefined. Would it be 
better to use "scroll minimum amount to make it visible" or something like 
this? 

Alex.

On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 5:11 AM, Pete Brunet <brunet at us.ibm.com> wrote: 

Please are the following constant and description which I added this to 
the spec: 

/** Scroll the object or substring such that it is placed fully within the 

window (or as much as possible).  The object or substring can be placed 
anywhere within the window. 
*/ 
IA2_SCROLL_TYPE_ANYWHERE 

Pete Brunet
                                                                      
IBM Accessibility Architecture and Development
11501 Burnet Road, MS 9022E004, Austin, TX 78758
Voice: (512) 838-4594, Cell: (512) 689-4155
Ionosphere: WS4G

"Alexander Surkov" <surkov.alexander at gmail.com> 
05/27/2008 08:36 PM 


To
Pete Brunet/Austin/IBM at IBMUS 
cc
Accessibility-ia2 at lists.freestandards.org 
Subject
Re: [Accessibility-ia2] new scroll type?














I have looked into mozilla code and there our constant is much similar 
with IA2_SCROLL_TYPE_BUBBLE_ONLY_IF_NECESSARY. We could implement another 
constant as long as we know its meaning and for sure if it's necessary :) 
Because SCROLL_TYPE_ANYWHERE means AT doesn't care where accessible object 
will be (just in view). But I haven't idea how can IA2_SCROLL_TYPE_BUBBLE 
be used. 

Alexander. 


On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 11:55 PM, Pete Brunet <brunet at us.ibm.com> wrote: 

Alexander, Would SCROLL_TYPE_ANYWHERE be equivalent to David Bolter's 
IA2_SCROLL_TYPE_BUBBLE_ONLY_IF_NECESSARY?   

And do you see David's IA2_SCROLL_TYPE_BUBBLE as something you could 
implement? 

Pete Brunet
                                                                     
IBM Accessibility Architecture and Development
11501 Burnet Road, MS 9022E004, Austin, TX 78758
Voice: (512) 838-4594, Cell: (512) 689-4155
Ionosphere: WS4G 

"Alexander Surkov" <surkov.alexander at gmail.com> 
05/25/2008 08:54 PM 


To
Pete Brunet/Austin/IBM at IBMUS 
cc
Accessibility-ia2 at lists.freestandards.org, 
Accessibility at lists.freestandards.org 
Subject
Re: [Accessibility-ia2] new scroll type?
















In Gecko accessibility API we have constant named SCROLL_TYPE_ANYWHERE 
which allows to scroll accessible into view. We can map it into new IA2 
constant. 

Alexander.


On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 8:13 AM, Pete Brunet <brunet at us.ibm.com> wrote: 

For IA2::scrollTo it would be nice to have an enum value for IA2ScrollType 
that was not limited to an edge or corner in the case that the AT doesn't 
care how it's brought on screen. Does anyone have some insight into if a 
new constant  is needed? 

Pete Brunet
                                                                    
IBM Accessibility Architecture and Development
11501 Burnet Road, MS 9022E004, Austin, TX 78758
Voice: (512) 838-4594, Cell: (512) 689-4155
Ionosphere: WS4G

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