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<font size="2">aloha!
<br />
<br />
minutes from the 7 September 2010 Open Accessibility Workgroup
<br />
teleconference can be accessed as hypertext
at:
<br />
<br />
<a target="_blank" href="http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/Minutes/Minutes20100907">http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/Minutes/Minutes20100907</a>
<br />
<br />
and as plain text following my signature -- as usual, please
log
<br />
any errors, corrections, misattributions, clarifications, and
the
<br />
like by replying-to this announcement
on-list...
<br />
<br />
note that the bulk of the 7 September 2010 meeting was dedicated to
<br />
discussion of the ISO documentation on AT-SPI -- in particular,
<br />
section 3.x -- the hypertext version of the minutes includes the graphics
<br />discussed during the 2010-09-07 telecon for ease of reference
<br />
<br />please note that janina plans to review a section of the document
per
<br />
week (starting on 14 September 2010 with section 4 --
<br />
<a target="_blank" href="http://rednote.net/iso.html#x1-370004">http://rednote.net/iso.html#x1-370004</a>) -- and continuing
with 1
<br />
section per week through review of section
9
<br />
<br />
in advance of the 14 September 2010 meeting, i have populated
the
<br />
minutes template for that meeting to contain the text to be
<br />
discussed in blockquotes, thereby making it easier for Open
A11y
<br />
members to review the material being discussed in context --
the
<br />
URL for the 14 September 2010 meeting can be found
at:
<br />
<br />
<a target="_blank" href="http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/Minutes/Minutes20100914">http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/Minutes/Minutes20100914</a>
<br />
<br />
a preliminary agenda for the 14 September 2010 meeting can be
found
<br />
at:
<br />
<br />
<a target="_blank" href="http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/Minutes/Agenda20100914">http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/Minutes/Agenda20100914</a>
<br />
<br />
gregory.
<br />
<br />
_________________________________________________________________
<br />
<br />
Open A11y Working Group Conference Call (7 September
2010)
<br />
<br />
<br />
Preliminary
Items
<br />
<br />
Participants
<br />
<br />
* Janina Sajka
(JS/chair)
<br />
+ Pete
Brunet(PB)
<br />
+ Joanmarie Diggs
(JD)
<br />
+ Mike Gorse
(MG)
<br />
+ Chris Hofstadter
(CH)
<br />
+ Gregory J. Rosmaita
(GJR/scribe)
<br />
+ Jeremy Whiting
(JW)
<br />
o regrets: Brian
Cragun
<br />
<br />
For
Reference
<br />
<br />
* Agenda for 7 September 2010 Open A11y
Call
<br />
<a target="_blank" href="http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/Minutes/Agenda20100907">http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/Minutes/Agenda20100907</a>
<br />
<br />
<br />
Approval of Past
Minutes
<br />
<br />
* Minutes from 10 August 2010 Open A11y
Call
<br />
<a target="_blank" href="http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/Minutes/Minutes20100810">http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/Minutes/Minutes20100810</a>
<br />
<br />
* Minutes from 3 August 2010 Open A11y
Call
<br />
<a target="_blank" href="http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/Minutes/Minutes20100803">http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/Minutes/Minutes20100803</a>
<br />
<br />
* Minutes from 27 July 2010 Open A11y
Call
<br />
<a target="_blank" href="http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/Minutes/Minutes20100727">http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/Minutes/Minutes20100727</a>
<br />
<br />
* Minutes from 20 July 2010 Open A11y
Call
<br />
<a target="_blank" href="http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/Minutes/Minutes20100720">http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/Minutes/Minutes20100720</a>
<br />
<br />
_________________________________________________________________
<br />
<br />
Meeting
Minutes
<br />
<br />
Topic 1: Documenting the AT-SPI Environment for
ISO
<br />
<br />
FOR
REFERNCE:
<br />
* Draft Information Technology User interfaces Interoperability
with
<br />
assistive technology Part 4: Linux / UNIX graphical
environments
<br />
accessibility API [<a target="_blank" href="http://rednote.net/iso.html">http://rednote.net/iso.html</a>]
<br />
<br />
JS: plan to review a section a week at Open Accessibility meetings
for
<br />
sections 4 through 9 discussing one topic per
week
<br />
<br />
JS: frontmatter pro forma; bibliography; glossary will
contain
<br />
definitions of terms only if in prose of document; have to see if
ISO
<br />
has official definition of Linux or Unix (what is difference
between
<br />
the 2 according to
ISO)
<br />
<br />
JS: would like to start today by reviewing Section 3.2
"Architecture"
<br />
<br />
The GNOME Accessibility Architecture provided on most Linux
and
<br />
Unix graphical desktops--the only accessibility
architecture
<br />
available for Linux and Unix graphical
desktops--distinguishes
<br />
between AT-SPI aware applications, assistive technologies and
an
<br />
accessibility
broker.
<br />
<br />
Communications between applications and assistive technologies
(AT)
<br />
is achieved using AT-SPI, which facilitates communications
with
<br />
AT-SPI aware applications on the one hand, and with AT on
the
<br />
other.
<br />
<br />
PB: comment: are applications aware of AT-SPI? thought were aware
of
<br />
ATK or
GTK
<br />
<br />
JS:
true
<br />
<br />
MG: bunch of layers
--
<br />
<br />
JS: application not aware of AT-SPI
specifically
<br />
<br />
MG: a screen reader is, but a "mainstream" app generally isn't
--
<br />
theoretically it could, but layers over ATK often done by
toolkit
<br />
rather than application
itself
<br />
<br />
JS:
ATK-aware
<br />
<br />
PB: accessibility just below the
layer?
<br />
<br />
JS: will check with other documents on
this
<br />
<br />
PB: focus above the layer -- i think ATK when i think
architecture,
<br />
but might want to expand on other aspects of other layers -- such
as
<br />
TrollTech
did
<br />
<br />
AT-SPI aware applications are applications that offer
information
<br />
about their user interface via the AT-SPI protocol. This can
be
<br />
achieved in several ways: GNOME applications get AT-SPI support
for
<br />
free: The GTK+ toolkit they are based on optionally loads
GAIL,
<br />
which bridges between the GNOME widgets and ATK. A second
library
<br />
is used in order to bridge between ATK and AT-SPI. Mozilla does
not
<br />
use GTK+ but implements the ATK api directly within
the
<br />
application. Java applications may use the Java
Accessibility
<br />
Framework which directly bridges to AT-SPI. In the context
of
<br />
AT-SPI applications are often called
servers.
<br />
<br />
PB: missing something here about TrollTech
architecture
<br />
<br />
JW: yes, but not complete --
mention?
<br />
<br />
JS: if architectural direction set, ok to
mention
<br />
<br />
JW:
agree
<br />
<br />
JS: can you email me a sentence or 2 to
strengthen?
<br />
<br />
JD: open access functions -- what is up-and-coming; don't know if
want
<br />
to mention
everything
<br />
<br />
JS: uno is mentioned elsewhere, but can import to this section
--
<br />
currently or about to be
supported
<br />
<br />
MG: reword comment for Java -- JavaAccessBridge works that way
but
<br />
being replaced by the JTK
wrapper
<br />
<br />
JS: add uno and add
JTK
<br />
<br />
JS: JD, please provide info about
WebKit
<br />
<br />
PB: atk to
java
<br />
<br />
MG: java ATK wrapper <a target="_blank" href="http://git.gnome.org/browse/java-atk-wrapper/">http://git.gnome.org/browse/java-atk-wrapper/</a>
<br />
<br />
In order for an application to be accessible on the
Linux/Unix
<br />
graphical Desktop, it needs to provide information about its
user
<br />
interface using ATK. If the application is written using
GNOME's
<br />
GTK+, all of the standard widgets provide the needed information
to
<br />
ATK and therefore the application will by default be
accessible.
<br />
For applications that do not use GTK+ for their user
interface,
<br />
additional work needs to be done to make them
accessible.
<br />
<br />
JW: does every other toolkit go through ATK to get to
AT-SPI
<br />
<br />
MG: yes, except for
QTspi
<br />
<br />
JS: will note that QT will be
exception;
<br />
<br />
MG: GTK apps being accessible is only true insofar as custom
widgets
<br />
aren't used; if custom widgets used may have to implement
classes
<br />
<br />
JS: will add note about custom widgets requirements; trying to
avoid
<br />
mentioning specific apps, save on AT
side
<br />
<br />
Assistive technologies are applications that are interested
in
<br />
requesting information about the user interfaces of AT-SPI
aware
<br />
applications. A screen reader (like GNOME's Orca) needs to
know
<br />
what to speak, braille, or magnify. An on-screen keyboard
(like
<br />
GNOME's Caribou) needs to send keyboard and mouse events to
the
<br />
application. In the context of AT-SPI, assistive technologies
are
<br />
often called clients because they consume and interact
with
<br />
application UI
information.
<br />
<br />
JW: another place where need to change AT-SPI aware to
ATK-aware
<br />
<br />
JS:
yes
<br />
<br />
The accessibility broker is a daemon that coordinates
communication
<br />
between AT-SPI aware applications and assistive technologies.
Each
<br />
AT-SPI aware application registers with the broker in order
to
<br />
offer its information. Assistive technologies may add
event
<br />
listeners to the broker, so that they get informed
when
<br />
accessibility related information in any application
changes.
<br />
<br />
JW: another place where need to change AT-SPI aware to
ATK-aware
<br />
<br />
JS:
yes
<br />
<br />
Discussion of Illustrations and Their
Descriptors
<br />
<br />
* Figure 1: The GNOME Accessibility
Architecture
<br />
(GAPArchitecture3.jpg)
<br />
<a target="_blank" href="http://rednote.net/GAPArchitecture3.jpg">http://rednote.net/GAPArchitecture3.jpg</a>
<br />
<br />
* Figure 2: Any toolkit can implement accessibility support.
This
<br />
figure illustrates the GNOME architecture as currently
supported
<br />
by Java/Swing, GTK+, UNO, and XUL.
(atspi.png)
<br />
<a target="_blank" href="http://rednote.net/atspi.png">http://rednote.net/atspi.png</a>
<br />
<br />
* How GAD
works:
<br />
<br />
<a target="_blank" href="http://library.gnome.org/devel/accessibility-devel-guide/stable/gad-how-it-works.html.en">http://library.gnome.org/devel/accessibility-devel-guide/stable/gad-how-it-works.html.en</a>
<br />
<br />
* D-Bus
image:
<br />
<br />
<a target="_blank" href="http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/BonoboDeprecation?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=at-spi-dbus.png">http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/BonoboDeprecation?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=at-spi-dbus.png</a>
<br />
<br />
* CORBA image:
<br />
<br />
<a target="_blank" href="http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/BonoboDeprecation?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=at-spi-corba.png">http://live.gnome.org/Accessibility/BonoboDeprecation?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=at-spi-corba.png</a>
<br />
<br />
JS: image questions: think they are similar, but one simplified,
one
<br />
detailed so can find connections -- one from Gunnar Schmidt of
KDE
<br />
A11y
<br />
<br />
PB: not the
same
<br />
<br />
JS: think useful to have simple and then more detailed
view
<br />
<br />
PB: does this actually add
anything?
<br />
<br />
JW: i've seen a good illustration on gnome site -- has Java
and
<br />
OpenOffice and GTK; no legend for
colors
<br />
<br />
PB: PNG seems to be sub-set of JPG
file
<br />
<br />
JW: JPG file
over-complex
<br />
<br />
JW: image
from
<br />
<a target="_blank" href="http://library.gnome.org/devel/accessibility-devel-guide/stable/gad-ho">http://library.gnome.org/devel/accessibility-devel-guide/stable/gad-ho</a>
<br />
w-it-works.html.en seems
clearer
<br />
<br />
JS: more inclined to include more graphics and then have group
remove
<br />
<br />
PB: [compares graphics] - any using
ASR?
<br />
<br />
PB: voice control
path
<br />
<br />
JS: discussion on what to do to create that on gnu-accessibility
list,
<br />
but don;t know of an app using this
architecture
<br />
<br />
JW: bonobo deprecation page images better diagrams -- reviewed
these
<br />
with
WillWalker
<br />
<br />
PB: what is JAW? Java Access Bridge for
Windows?
<br />
<br />
JW:
yes
<br />
<br />
JW: note CORBA based image and D-Bus based
image
<br />
<br />
PB: like more
detailed
<br />
<br />
JS: inclined to use both -- a simple one and a more detailed one
that
<br />
shows how toolkits interface; want to show the center/middle of
the
<br />
hourglass
<br />
<br />
CH: hourglass is a wonderful
metaphor
<br />
<br />
PB: funnel of stuff above and funnel of stuff
below
<br />
<br />
PB: AT-SPI and ORB -- is ORB
gone?
<br />
<br />
JS: should not have ORB -- since bonobo deprecated and moving to
d-bus
<br />
<br />
JS: AT-SPI jpg is almost good enough -- needs to have ORB
removed
<br />
<br />
JS: D-BUS jpg is preferred by
group?
<br />
<br />
PB: like the most detailed one,
GAPArchitecture3.jpg
<br />
<br />
GNOME Accessibility
Architecture
<br />
<br />
PB: question marks for OpenOffice
stream
<br />
<br />
JW: uno access
glue
<br />
<br />
PB: firefox section -- is it
accurate
<br />
<br />
JD: thought is
nsI
<br />
<br />
JD: personally think GAPArchitecture3.jpg is too
complicated
<br />
<br />
JS: 2 graphics, then, would make a lot of
sense
<br />
<br />
JW: contrast issues with GAPArchitecture3.jpg -- colors
chose
<br />
difficult for anyone with less than perfect vision -- light
purples
<br />
light green light
pink
<br />
<br />
JW: red squiggly lines from spell checker need to be
removed
<br />
<br />
JD: switched to
UIbuilder
<br />
<br />
PB: changes in tools layer
needed
<br />
<br />
JS: set graphics aside; could Pete and Jeremy collaborate on
improving
<br />
graphic?
<br />
_________________________________________________________________
<br />
<br />
Topic 2: Bringing QT and KDE Expertise to Open
Accessibility
<br />
<br />
JW: there is a QT AT-SPI Bridge -- QAccessible -- every QT app
has
<br />
through AT-SPI interface; worked november 2009 before
changed
<br />
drastically; trying to get to work again; effort to get students
in
<br />
Toronto moving on this along with mentors on KDE
site;
<br />
<br />
JW: as far as QAccessible itself goes, have been told works well
on
<br />
windows and mac (with
carbon)
<br />
<br />
JW: bridge between 2 need some help from MG on testing;
application
<br />
testing tool or use acceciser? acceciser gives alot of errors
if
<br />
running
QCalculator
<br />
<br />
MG: could be 1 approach; to work with Orca, first test with
acceciser
<br />
-- if you email me, i will try and help as i
can
<br />
<br />
JW: getting same errors with QT
calculator
<br />
<br />
MG: acceciser gives you
tracebacks
<br />
<br />
JW: running
acceciser
<br />
<br />
JW: how to test on application side would help me understand what i
am
<br />
missing
<br />
<br />
MG: don't know offhand if good documentation on that -- will have
to
<br />
check documentation work previously
done
<br />
<br />
JD: i can use acceciser in my sleep, so if want assistance, let
me
<br />
know
<br />
<br />
CH: group in India would be able to write code if coached
correctly
<br />
<br />
JS: good technical documentation invaluable; if can find people
to
<br />
mentor (JD, for example) while these people get
going
<br />
<br />
GJR: points PB to GNOME's Accerciser
Tutorials
<br />
<a target="_blank" href="http://live.gnome.org/Accerciser#Tutorials">http://live.gnome.org/Accerciser#Tutorials</a>
<br />
<br />
JS: in terms of acceciser -- is more weighted for testing AT apps,
or
<br />
equally useful for the non-AT layer (skinny part of
hourglass)
<br />
<br />
MG: it exposes information correctly and monitor events -- if
using
<br />
Orca, use acceciser to find out what AT is
exposing
<br />
<br />
JS: so this is the skinny part of the
hourglass?
<br />
<br />
JD: don't use to access information, but another app like orca in
that
<br />
is consumer of
AT-SPI
<br />
<br />
JS: have wanted to ingetrate KDE and QT into our work for
years;
<br />
<br />
CH: GNU resources might be
available
<br />
_________________________________________________________________
<br />
<br />
Wrap
Up
<br />
<br />
Identify Dates and Topics for September 2010
Meetings
<br />
<br />
JS: next week review section 4 of ISO
document
<br />
<a target="_blank" href="http://rednote.net/iso.html#x1-370004">http://rednote.net/iso.html#x1-370004</a>
<br />
<br />
* meeting adjourned 1602h
UTC
<br />
* next Open A11y conference call:
2010-09-14
<br />
_________________________________________________________________
<br />
<br />
Retrieved
from
<br />
"<a target="_blank" href="http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/Minutes/Minutes20100907">http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Accessibility/Minutes/Minutes20100907</a>"
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